tv PBS News Hour PBS July 25, 2014 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT
captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productions >> sreenivasan: israel rejected a u.s. backed cease-fire, as the continued conflict with hamas in gaza spurred deadly protests in the west bank. we talk with white house national security advisor, susan rice. good evening, i'm hari sreenivasan. judy woodruff is on assignment. also ahead, inside creative minds. new research explores the link between mental illness and genius. >> one of the big questions is, should people who are creative have their psychiatric problems treated and does that diminish their creativity? >> sreenivasan: it's friday, mark shields and david brooks are here, to analyze the week's news. plus, how one printing press in san francisco makes books that
are works of art. >> when the type is pressed into good quality paper, it creates an aesthetic effect you cannot achieve any other way. >> sreenivasan: those are just some of the stories we're covering on tonight's pbs newshour. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: ♪ ♪ moving our economy for 160 years. bnsf, the engine that connects us. >> i've been around long enough to recognize the people who are out there owning it. the ones getting involved,
staying engaged. they are not afraid to question the path they're on. because the one question they never want to ask is, "how did i end up here?" i started schwab with those people. people who want to take ownership of their investments, like they do in every other aspect of their lives. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> sreenivasan: president obama appealed to central american leaders today to help stem the flow of migrant children from their countries into the u.s. it came amid talk of a pilot
program to give refugee status to youths from honduras. the president met at the white house with the presidents of guatemala, honduras and el salvador. >> we have to deter a continuing influx of children putting themselves at great risk and families who are putting their children at great risk and, so, i emphasize that, within our legal framework and humanitarian framework and proper due process, children who do not have proper claims and families with children who do not have proper claims at some point will be subject to repatriation to their home countries. >> sreenivasan: mr. obama has asked for $3.7 billion in emergency funding. house republicans want to spend less than one billion dollars, send national guard troops to the border, and speed up deportations. senate democrats favor spending $2.7 billion, but oppose
changing the law on deportations. we'll return to immigration later, with a focus on conditions in central america. french soldiers have found one of the black box recorders in the wreckage of the air algerie plane that went down yesterday in northern mali. all 118 people on board were killed, about half were french. the crash site is in a remote area near mali's border with burkina faso. the plane was bound for algiers when it went down in stormy weather. a small group of international investigators arrived today at the scene where malaysian airlines flight 17 was shot down in eastern ukraine. neil connery of independent television news has this report. >> reporter: hidden in the trees, the largest piece of wreckage from flight mh17 sound so far. it's laid here, undisturbed, for a week. this used to be part of economy class. nearby, the passports and belongings of some of those on board.
>> experts figure it must have come straight down because there weren't that many broken boxes. >> i counted about 16. those are pretty much in tact there and looks like the economy class section, about 22 or so, from there onwards. >> reporter: in the fields nearby, international forensic experts found more human remains today. a handful of investigators are now here from the netherlands and australia. the wreckage is spread over several miles and the challenge facing them is immense. eight days on from the downing of flight mh17, the wreckage remains where it fell, but none of this has been secured, raising questions of the ability of any investigation here to establish exactly what happened. the international effort to get more experts here continues, but this is a crash site in a war zone. how the world grapples with the
complexities far from here, families mourn. so many hopes and dreams ended in the skies above this troubled land. in other developments, the pentagon charged russia is set to transfer heavy caliber multiple launch rockets to the rebels. and, the u.s. ambassador to n.a.t.o. reported 15,000 russian troops have massed along the border, up sharply from earlier figures. stock markets on wall street today ended the week on a disappointing note, with weak reports from amazon and visa. the dow jones industrial average lost 123 points to close above 16,960. the nasdaq fell more than 22 points to close above 4,449. the s-and-p 500 dropped more than nine points to close at 1,978. for the week, the dow lost nearly 1%. the nasdaq rose nearly .5% and the s&p was flat. still to come on the newshour: susan rice on the diplomatic push to the end violence in gaza; what's driving child migrants
across the border; exploring the link between creative genius and mental illness; shields and brooks on the week's news; and handcrafting books into works of art. >> sreenivasan: diplomatic efforts to bring a cease-fire to the conflict between israel and hamas appeared to come up empty handed again. but late today, reuters reported israel's prime minister told u.s. secretary of state kerry they would start a 12-hour pause beginning tomorrow morning. for now, the violence continues. all told, more than 820 palestinians have been killed. in israel, 38 people have been killed. and the government rejected a u.s. plan for a seven day halt to the bloodshed. >> sreenivasan: the word came after another day of near- constant explosions across gaza city. israeli news reports said the security cabinet rejected the cease-fire proposal, giving the army more time to destroy hamas tunnels. a government spokesman argued
earlier that the burden is on the militants. >> so israel has shown where it is on these issues. hamas, unfortunately, has not been willing for a cease-fire, and we heard the leader of hamas yesterday, khaled mashaal put so many preconditions on a cease- fire as to make it impossible. >> sreenivasan: hamas has demanded the end of the economic blockade of gaza, and the release of palestinian prisoners. it did not publicly respond to this latest cease-fire proposal. the u.s., egypt and the u.n. called for a week-long halt in the fighting, to begin sunday, as the muslim holy month of ramadan comes to an end, followed by talks on economic, political and security concerns. >> we still have some terminology and some context of the framework to work through. but we are confident we have a fundamental framework that can and will ultimately work. >> sreenivasan: secretary of state john kerry had delayed his departure from cairo, egypt to pursue the peace effort. >> at this moment we are working toward a brief seven days of
peace, seven days of humanitarian cease-fire in order to bring people together to try to work to create a more durable, sustainable cease-fire for the long run. >> sreenivasan: the conflict, meanwhile, raged on. one air strike today killed the head of media operations for hamas ally, "islamic jihad", along with his son. and hamas kept up it's rocket fire, some of it again intercepted by israel's iron dome anti-missile system. more rockets were aimed at tel aviv's ben gurion airport, where warning sirens sent travelers scrambling from the terminal lobby. on the ground, there was heavy fighting in northern and central gaza on the heels of yesterday's fierce battles. at least 15 of yesterday's victims died when a u.n. school in northern gaza was hit. today, as the two sides blamed each other for that incident, the world health organization
appealed again for a humanitarian corridor to evacuate the wounded. >> people are dying at an alarming rate, being injured at a very alarming rate, we are calling for this, if you like, localized cease-fires, whereby the wounded can be evacuated, and we can access people with both health care and other kinds of relief. >> sreenivasan: anger over the situation in gaza boiled over in the west bank again today. palestinian officials said five people were killed in clashes with israeli forces there. there were more anti-israeli protests worldwide as well. in iran, thousands marched in the streets for the annual al- quds day, a march held on the last friday of ramadan to show support for palestinians. other rallies took place in pakistan, germany, belgium, and turkey. >> sreenivasan: later, there was word out of paris that france will host an international meeting tomorrow to try to get a
cease-fire agreement in gaza. for more on that effort, and containing the conflict in ukraine: susan rice, the national security advisor to the president. ambassador rice, i want to ask you first about the late news we have this afternoon. did prime minister benjamin netanyahu tell secretary kerry about a 12-hour pause? can you confirm that? >> ha ri, what you heard out of the press conference in cairo is a 12-hour pause has been called for. that certainly would be a modest initial step but something we would very much welcome. secretary kerry has been very much active in the region all throughout the week in consultations with prime minister netanyahu, with the egyptians, with the u.n. as well as with the governments of qatar and turkey and, in the course of that process, we have been urging the achievement of a 7-day humanitarian cease fire,
during which period there would be an opportunity for the political issues to begin to be addressed such that we could have a sustainable permanent cease fire. so, yes, there have been discussions back and forth about the length of a cease fire, the length of a pause. i can't obviously speak for the israeli government or any of the other parties in this. they will have to confirm their position publicly themselves. >> okay. at the same time, the defense minister in israel says that they've planned to broaden the ground operation in gaza significantly, whether there's a pause or not. has israel shared those plans with the united states or in this conversation? >> we have not had a detailed conversation about their operational plans. i think, frankly, they have some very difficult decisions to make. we have been very clear that israel has an undeniable right to self-defense and that the rockets that it has faced coming out of gaza incessantly, the
tunnels that are legioned and being used to infiltrate into israel are very legitimate security concerns for which they have an obligation -- against which they have an obligation to act. at the same time, we have said these operations need to be conducted in a way that don't lead to a broader escalation and that minimize the humanitarian and human toll, which is obviously mounting and about which we're gravely concerned. we're looking for as soon as reasonably possible the achievement of the seven-day humanitarian cease fire and the opportunity to negotiate a permanent peace. >> sreenivasan: what are the sticking points of getting a cease fire on the table? >> they are many. hamas have not been willing to agree to the terms of a cease fire. several have been offered over the last several weeks, they haven't accepted them. obviously, as the death toll mowpts and the circumstances on the ground evolve, the party's
perspectives evolve and what did they feel is necessary to defend themselves has evolved. so the israeli point of view is they are facing a serious and growing threat both from the rockets and from the tunnels. they have worked to try to deal decisively with that treat threat and we understand the motivation of that and are sympathetic and supportive of that. the other reality is this is coming at a mounting and grave cost on all sides. the israelis have suffered significant casualties and losses both military and civilian. obviously, the toll in gaza is very disturbing, and so thus the need now, as soon as possible, for a cease fire. >> sreenivasan: does the u.s. think it is a legitimate request by hamas to ask for the end of the economic blockade on gaza? >> well, these are very compelling issues and concerns,
but the problem is hamas is using force to try to extort progress on its political objectives, and we do not support that. recalling how this started, this started with hamas firing the rockets into israel, and if that's the way they want to seek an ending of some economic isolation, it's counterproductive and very unlikely to succeed. >> sreenivasan: a quick question about our influence in the region. are you concerned the u.s. doesn't seem to have an immediate impact on stopping the violence? >> quite the contrary. if there were a magic wand anybody could wave in the world, i'd like to see it, but the united states has been and remains the critical player in all of this, and that is why the parties so much wanted the united states in the form of secretary kerry to spend the entire week out in the region at a time when, as you know, there are many other pressing issues
in the world. the region, the players, the israelis, the palestinians, the egyptians and all of the partners that we have been working with look to the united states as a critical player -- the critical player -- in trying to resolve this, and we will continue to do what we can to achieve this cease fire. >> sreenivasan: one of the other pressing issues in the world, of course, is ukraine. what specific evidence does the u.s. government have of a more direct involvement by russia in this fight? >> well, let me say -- recap what we have learned over the last several days since the shootdown of the malaysia airliner. in the first instance, we have a high degree of confidence in the evidence that there was a surface-to-air missile, an sa-11, fired from separatist-held territory inside ukraine at this aircraft and brought it down. we also know that surface-to-air weapon was not a ukrainian one.
we have ways and means of determining how the ukrainian model of that weapon was being employed at the time. we have ways and means of knowing where the weapon was shot. from it was shot from separatist-held territory. it was a weapon that we believe was transferred to the separatists by russia. it also requires sophisticated training, so that training was provided by russia or it may be -- and we can't say -- that russia had a more direct hand in this. we also know the heavy weapons continue to flow across the border as they have the last many weeks, indeed months, from russia into ukraine and we have now, in recent days, indications that russian military units themselves have, on occasion, fired into ukraine. >> sreenivasan: so is there a plan for the u.s. to provide military assistance to ukraine? >> hari, the united states has
already begun to provide various forms of non-lethal military assistance to ukraine. we also have begun to assess with the ukrainians the scope of their larger security assistance requirements. we have had teams out making that assessment with the ukrainians, and we have already provided various forms of equipment and support to ukraine. now, there are those who have argued that now is the time to provide lethal military support. that is not a decision the united states has taken to date. >> sreenivasan: finally, does this have the potential, as we increase our military engagement and involvement, to becoming a proxy war with russia? >> well, that's one of the factors, obviously, we and others take into account as we consider the wisdom of our next steps. the russians are clearly already engaged in a proxy war against the government of ukraine. that is something that we and the rest of the world have
actively condemned and sanctioned russia already heavily for, particularly the united states, as we have imposed, now, meaningful tough sanctions in critical sectors including the defense sector, the financial sector and the energy sector, and we are working with the europeans who have also now in recent days stepped up their own sanctions to have them join us in imposing sectoral sanctions in a concerted way and we are coordinating our efforts to try to accomplish that and, so, that the economic pressure on russia will continue to mount. be mindful that the united states only accounts for about 3% of the economic engagement with russia. europe is 40%, so europe's contribution to this pressure is far more than symbolic, it's very practical, and that's one of the many reasons why we have worked hard to remain in close coordination with our european partners. >> sreenivasan: all right, national security advisor to the president, susan rice, thank you
so much. >> thank you for having me. >> sreenivasan: we turn now to the crisis at the u.s. border, and what's driving the wave of migrant children to make the dangerous journey. as we saw from president obama's meeting today with the leaders of honduras, el salvador and guatemala, many of the factors at play stem from violence and instability in those countries. to help us better understand the situation in central america: anita isaacs is a professor at haverford college. she studies u.s.-latin america relations and regional politics. she also recently returned from guatemala as part of a state department study on civil society. to ask, even with these kind of lofty aspirations that the president made out today, what's the likelihood that the underlying conditions in these countries changes? >> yeah, i mean, i think that's a great question, and i think that, you know, the central american leaders came to the united states to request a
compassionate response from president obama and the u.s. congress and the u.s. people, and i think that, to some extent, you know, amid the sea of anti-immigrant diatribe, we've seen some compassionate responses both from some members of congress, representative i think also in particular, and some sectors of u.s. society. i think the real challenge now is whether we'll see the same compassionate response in central american countries where the conditions that are -- that fuel migration speak to tremendous inequalities, tremendous poverty and tremendous violence. >> sreenivasan: what are more underlying structural factors at work? >> yeah. i mean, violence -- there are all different kinds of violence in central central america. there is violence connected to drug traffickers and other organized criminal syndicates involved in contraband and smug
lick and human trafficking and violence associated with gangs, and it's the gang violence that, in many respects, is fueling the migration of children to the united states. the gang violence is really borne out of economic poverty, desperation. it's what children and young people turn to when there are no other opportunities. so it's really at its source where we see countries that are mired in poverty that have some of the greatest levels of inequality anywhere in the world and in which children really see no hope in their future. >> sreenivasan: so what can the leaders of the three countries do when they go home to try to create a disincentive from going through this process of getting to the united states or an incentive to stay? >> what's really incumbent on the leaders is to show compassionate leadership hat home, to push forward an agenda that fosters sustainable
economic development in urban and rural areas that are affected by gang violence. thethey have the resources. these aren't poor countries. they can introduce forums and create the opportunities that will want to make people say but so far we haven't seen much in terms of the political willingness on parts of both the leaders and welcome sectors of society to enact the changes. >> sreenivasan: how much of the problem comes back to perhaps the political parties in power or the leadership that's already there? >> well, it does come back to that. it also comes -- to a certain extent. i mean, in el salvador, there was more a commitment to real compassion being exrelszed by the leaders of the moment. honduras and guatemala are different. in the case of guatemala which is a country that i know best, what we're seeing really is a
legacy of 36 years of armed conflict in which those who basically won the war are those who retain power today which are traditional wealthy sectors of society and sectors of the military. >> sreenivasan: the other question i wanted to ask is, when it comes to civil society, how much a role does corruption play in the effectiveness of institutions? >> yeah, the institutions are riddled with corruption and, so, there's a lot of talk about the challenges of security and, for example, in the case of these countries, there's more private security than there are policemen, for example. you know, that's a real problem, but if you're going to address those problems, you also need to address the corruption, the institutional corruption that pervades the security forces so that the security forces can actually guarantee citizen security. >> sreenivasan: is there
anything these group of countries can agree on to work together on regarding the immigration or migration problem? >> i think there is a lot to do. i think it's a question of political will. i think they can crack down on the organized criminal gangs that control migration, what's become a migration parade, the smuggling roots, so i think there's a real capacity to crack down. and i think there's a real capacity to enact reforms that are economic and social and political reforms that would create a more transparent, more accountable institutions and that would enable our -- would provide genuine economic opportunities for their citizens. i don't think that the challenges are enormous. i think what is lacking is will. >> sreenivasan: anita isaacs, thank you so much. >> thank you for having me.
>> sreenivasan: next, the third in our series of stories this week on the science of the brain. tonight, judy woodruff explores the connections between creativity and mental illness. it's a subject that has intrigued researchers for quite a while, and judy recently traveled to the midwest to interview a leading scientist in the field. our story was produced in partnership with the "atlantic magazine," which features this topic as it's cover story this month. >> woodruff: on any given day, you might find dr. nancy andreasen, m.d., ph.d, in the m.r.i. lab at the university of iowa hospital center. >> the principle here is that this is what we call the control task. >> woodruff: it's here where she has done groundbreaking neuro- imaging research, especially on schizophrenia, linking it to physical differences in the brain itself. it's something she's been interested in since she received her degree in 1960's. >> i knew i was going to be interested in the brain, because i knew it was the organ that makes us human.
>> woodruff: but she's also always had a parallel interest in literature, which led to an unusual field of scientific inquiry: why have so many great writers suffered from mental illness? >> i knew that for instance bertrand russell, great philosopher, had a family just loaded with schizophrenia. james joyce, had a daughter with schizophrenia and joyce himself was also kind of odd. >> woodruff: in the 1960's and '70's, she took advantage of the university's nationally renowned iowa writer's workshop to study writers who taught there, like kurt vonnegut and john cheever. she wanted to see if there were a higher than usual occurrence of mental illness among them or their family members. her study concluded that a full 80% had a form of mood disturbance at some point compared with 30% of a control group. >> that study came as a great surprise to me.
i had this working idea that people would have family members with schizophrenia and what i found instead was that these writers had really high rates of mood disorder, which would be manic depressive illness and just plain depression, that they had high rate of mood disorder in their first degree relatives and that creativity ran in their families as well. noted example is kurt vonnegut, who himself of course was a writer, his father was an architect, one son is a writer, and two daughters work in the arts as well and a substantial number of them have mental illness of various kinds. >> woodruff: in fact kurt vonnegut's son, mark, now a pediatrician and writer living in boston, has been very open about his own struggle with mental illness. >> in short, like a lot of people and like it happened to a
lot of people in my family, in my early 20's i became convinced that i didn't have to eat anymore or sleep anymore, i was hearing voices continuously, they had to put me in a psychiatric hospital. i've had you know, four terrible psychotic breaks and there is nothing romantic about them! life is discontinuous and horrible and getting back on your feet is a lot of work. >> woodruff: wanting to do something to ease the pain, andreasen focused her research for the next two decades on neurobiology and neuro-imaging. but she never lost her interest in creative genius, does it run in families? what's the connection between creativity and mental illness? >> one of the big questions is, should people who are creative have their psychiatric problems treated and does that diminish their creativity? that's a hard question because the very things that make people
creative make them vulnerable. >> woodruff: in the last decade, nancy andreasen has been conducting her second study of creative minds: she has been working with highly accomplished and recognized individuals such as the filmmaker george lucas, the pulitzer prize winning novelist jane smiley, and mathematician william thurston. she invites them to visit her farm, before heading to the university hospital the next morning for a session inside a claustrophobic neuro-magnetic imaging scanner. andreasen observes how answering different questions affects different parts of the brain. >> i realized that people who are creative are better at making connections, what i have to do is figure out how to tap into the association cortex and then that actually made it very easy, you just give tasks where
people make associations. there are three tests: one is word association, one is picture association and one is a pattern detection study. what characterizes the brains of highly creative people that is different from the brains of people who are equally educated and generally quite successful but just not as highly creative? >> woodruff: in these scans, you can literally see the difference between highly creative people and equally educated, intelligent control subjects like this one. >> we're seeing which brain regions are most active during a specific task. what we're seeing is areas that are relatively more increased during the experimental task in comparison with a control task. in this case the experimental task is detecting a pattern that is a very challenging puzzle that they are solving and the
areas of the brain that they use more actively during the pattern detection are shown in red or yellow and the areas that are more active during the comparison task are shown in blue. >> woodruff: many of andreasen's conclusions so far about creative genius stem also from the extensive interviews she's done. she stresses this is preliminary but says there are some traits that many of her subjects share. they teach themselves from an early age, have many deep interests, rather than just one; and they are very persistent, even in the face of rejection. >> one interesting thing that's emerged, is that so many of these highly creative people are auto-didacts, people who teach themselves and that makes them almost misfits in the educational system they get put into. it would be nice if educators were aware of the existence of auto-didacts and need to give
them slightly different education experiences, to nurture them. >> woodruff: andreasen believes her research into creative minds has already helped reduce the negative image associated with mental illness. mark vonnegut also champions research into prominent people with mental illness, if that's what it takes to achieve public awareness and understanding. >> i think to the degree it helps get rid of the stigma of mental illness and gets people on board you know, wrestling this beast together, that it's a good thing. so by all means, let's not have any more homeless vets, because there might be a kurt vonnegut in there, you know? let's take care of them, let's take care of our people. there may be a hemingway in there, or a van gogh, let's take care of each other. >> you know, some of the stories are just crushing, but the remarkable thing is that these are hugely successful people.
so you balance the crushing personal histories against the record of extraordinary achievement and it's inspiring. >> woodruff: andreasen says it will take several years to complete the research project on the creative mind but the results at the midway point were so exciting, she wanted to make them public now. >> sreenivasan: you can find a link to nancy andreasen's cover story for the atlantic on our website. >> sreenivasan: and to the analysis of shields and brooks. that's syndicated columnist mark shields and new york times columnist david brooks. so as we wrote about in the morning email this morning, when you talk about immigration, there's policy and politics. let's tackle the policy first. there was maybe a photoop here
at the white house, and the president made a point of saying there's a nation of immigrants and laws. he looked like he wanted to thread the needle a bit. is this a right balance? did he strike that? >> i think he did strike it but i think it's politically nothing that will happen, in my judgment, even as we drive to the august recess. they're too far apart. i think the democrats are not going to support a change in the 2008 law, which it does provide different coverage and different treatment of the children and others from guatemala and el salvador and honduras. and the republicans aren't going to vote for $1 billion. there are votes and everybody knows this and it has to pass the senate comprehensive immigration bill which passed the senate a year and a half ago, but they wouldn't do it
with republican votes, the speaker wanted to do it with just democratic votes and the majority of the republican votes, so i think the chances of anything being done on this are very remote. >> sreenivasan: why doesn't it happen? >> first, on the president, i think he threaded the needle but leaned a little further on the side of the children who had to be sent home than i expected. i think it was the proper response, in order to stem the tide. i agree with mark on the politics of it. everybody wants to do something so i think the house will do something, but that doesn't mean they'll all agree to the same thing and i agree they're too far apart. the politics in the air can hurt things and i just think that the country -- or the political leadership is terrified of the activists on that. >> sreenivasan: what about the political reality of trying to
lure the hispanic vote, trying to win favor going into an election in a year and a half? >> this has been an issue, immigration, very bluntly that's been for the democrats and the president's handling at the border gets a 54% disapproval rating from the latinos, who are the key. the president can't win without latinos, democrats can't win without latinos. republicans have to change their ways to at least get competitive and lose better than 3 to 1 a latino vote, the fastest-growing demographic in the country, and i just don't think that any democrats are going to vote, at this point, to change the 2008 law. there may be a handful. >> but to change the law to make it tougher on kids. it appears to be in some way tougher on latinos in particular. >> i must say i'm mystified by that because it would more or less equalize kids from
different countries and seems to me more or less fair, seems to me the law is miswritten in a way not anticipated, seems to me that equalizing, depending on what countries from, latin america, seems to be a fair option. but the pact is republicans are doomed. but you're a republican from mississippi, say, you know, nationally, we've got to get square on immigration or else people from minority communities won't even listen to us, no matter what else we say. but if you're afraid of what happened to eric cantor happening to you, the party can hang itself and that's the essential problem. >> the only country in the world with a higher murder rate han honduras right now is syria. that's how tough it is. i think it is to some degree contributed to the special treatment. >> sreenivasan: well, there was a story last night about possibly increasing the amount of refugee applications in honduras. >> yes.
>> sreenivasan: is it appropriate to broaden the definition of refugee according to who seeks asylum, saying what could happen in honduras is similar to what what could happen in somalia. >> i think we could handle a more intelligent refugee policy, but if you look at some of the people voting against this or opposing this, they do not have faith any law passed will be enforced and they believe once you broaden the refugee assignment, that will be the loophole to open the borders wide. so this is partly a legacy of tradition, the generalized distrust of the immigration and legacy of the immigration bill which passed under ronald reagan which is a good bill but without border enforcement that undermined future and all immigration bills. >> sreenivasan: it is a good bill and did help.
>> it is a good bill and did help. i think there is a dangerous precedent going into other countries. we're going to have a rotating group. i mean, there are a lot of countries where people are facing both terror and the gangs and worse and precarious futures. you know, i don't know if there's going to be a pre-clearance group to interview people and make the judgments. >> sreenivasan: we heard from national security advisor susan rice. first off, any reaction to how the administration has been handling it this week? >> the posture has been pretty good. they have been tough on hamas which is right, they have been honest about things. they're doing what they can. you can't force peace on parties when the parties don't want it. right now israel sees a chance to severely weaken hamas, they do it with a tacet endorsement of some of the anti-muslim brotherhood countries, so in
terms of the region, they're in a reasonably good moment. if they're going to try to weaken hamas and get rid of the tunnels, this is the time to do it so they see advantage. hamas sees advantage, they're marginalized, centralized, interested in forcing the egyption government to allow some transport and communications of commerce across the border, the egyptian regime hasn't wanted it, but if they could become a movement across the region, they could force egypt to open the borders so both parties see advantages. soy suspect this thing will go on for a little a while. >> i'm more hopeful. i think each party has a different stake right now. for hamas, david's right, all politics is local. in a bizarre way, what has happened has strengthened hamas. hamas was unpopular, it was not seen as able or competent, but what has happened is that as they've stood up to the invading
and occupying army that's inflicting injury and destruction upon and seem to inflict some damage upon nirlz return, they're winning the support locally. for israel, the opposite, all politics is global, and just as they do it more, in my judgment, the united states war in vietnam was fought and lost on television in the living rooms of america. i think israel has really had a very bad week in social media. i think the images of the hospitals, the schools, the children, the lack of electricity and water and sewage, i just think that's taken a toll on israel. >> i guess i disagree on both things there. i agree hamas has had a short run, and when you're in a conflict, the people fighting, the people most militant are going to get a surge and they've certainly had a surge in the palestinian public polls show that, but there's been a clear
pattern in the middle east that over the long term palestinians do not believe that this war fighting that is a regime that doesn't believe israel has a right to exist, that the not the way to get out of the mess they're in, and i think people will look around and say are we really going to bomb our way to peace? and they're not going to want that over the long term. >> sreenivasan: what about the idea of the power of social media affecting perception? has the political perception of the conflict shifted with the onslaught of images we've seen whether from one side or the other? >> if you measure by body count, israel has killed more so they look nor vicious, and the people are inclined to think poorly of israel hopping on that. i guess i'm more inclined to think positively of israel and would say the moral calculus is
not even. that hamas has put the sight of the origin of doubles under hospitals in a dense residential area, missiles shot from dense residential areas, they're inviting civilian casualties by what is clearly an immoral way of waging war and if you take account the moral calculus is uneven. is that the alclues accepted in the european press? of course not. so israel faced a barrage of criticism not from the american administration and some of the surprising people in the region as i mentioned, egypt, saudi arabia andout, but at some point you can't govern by popularity if you have people bombings you, if you have the missiles that cost a million dollars each to build, you simply have to take care of the tunnels. >> i really feel that the desire for the end of the suffering and the pain is transcendent and on the rise, and i give
secretary kerry great credit and former ambassador mike mendick who was on our show recently for making the effort. i don't think you can accept the status quo. the status quo ante is there. we have to get a solution and it has to be a two-state solution and it has to be basically encouraged if not imposed, i think. >> just one quick thing. i just don't think the two-state solution is germane to this situation. it is germane to the west bank. a two-state solution will not quiet hamas. there are no settlements in gaza. to me this is about the fundamentals, israel's right to exist and the rivalry's between the muslim brotherhood and other parties in the region. >> sreenivasan: i think we're almost out of time, but mark
shields, david brooks, thanks so much. >> sreenivasan: finally, gutenberg in the age of the digital tablet. jeffrey brown has a story about craftsmanship, and a great american poet. >> brown: i celebrate myself, and what i assume you shall assume, for every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you. the famous first lines of a landmark of american literature: walt whitman's "leaves of grass." whitman was thirty-six years old when he self-published the first edition in 1855. a trained printer, he personally hand-set some of the lines of type in the book. now whitman's work is being printed again, just as he did it in the 1800's, on moveable type printing presses. the setting this time: in an old industrial building in san francisco's presidio national park. where the arion press is one of
the country's last fine book printers, and limited edition, handmade works are crafted from start to finish under one roof. >> the making of a book is a very, very complicated process. >> brown: the man who's kept it founder, publisher, and a poet all going for four decades is founder, publisher, and a poet himself, andrew hoyem. >> we do what we do not to be quaint, but to use these techniques of letterpress printing, printing from metal types, because when the type is pressed into good quality paper, it creates an aesthetic effect you cannot achieve any other way. >> brown: from the foundry where molten lead is turned into individual letters, and lines of type on 100-year-old machines, to the press room where the type is hand-set, letter by letter, line-by-line and individual pages are fed into the presses.
to the book bindery where bindings are hand-sewn and a hammer is a useful tool, the results are works of art. they're not cheap: books sell from $500 into the thousands. but this is a place where details are everything, and the aesthetic stakes are extraordinarily high. >> there's some art that's involved in making the myriad decisions about what type you're going to use, what size of that type. the margins have to lift your soul. >> brown: lift your soul? >> yeah. >> brown: the margins lift your soul? >> yeah, because otherwise, i mean if you just center the type on the page you have this feeling of, "oh, i think i'm sinking." >> brown: poetry has been a special focus for arion from the beginning. as has the inclusion of artwork commissioned specially for projects from leading artists, such as wayne thiebaud, kara
walker, and kiki smith. to mark the printing of arion's 100th book, and it's 40th anniversary, hoyem wanted something special, and found it in leaves of grass. an iconic portrait of a young bearded walt whitman greets readers on the opening page, just as it did in the original. whitman would revise and re- publish leaves throughout his life. but it was the first edition that changed everything. >> i think it is the holy book of american poetry. >> brown: former poet laureate robert hass says whitman's language, his directness about democratic ideals, urban life, sexuality, and so much more, announced to the world an authentic american voice. >> i think it sits right next to the bill of rights, and the declaration of independence, as one of the most powerful documents of american culture. it brought together so many things in the 19th century around certain ideas of what this country was, and could be, that it ought to celebrate and not be afraid of it's diversity.
>> brown: for their new edition, hoyem and his team of 12 craftspeople went all out. hoyem himself hand-fed every sheet that went in and out of the 1920 platen press, a task he did regularly during arion's early years. this is manual labor, right? >> it sure is. >> brown: hand-made cotton rag paper from england was dampened in a time consuming process to prep it for printing. 27-year-old chris godek, three years into a four year, paid, apprentice program at arion, spent hours re-creating whitman's verses. what do you tell your friends? i mean, what do they think about it? >> they think i'm crazy. >> brown: they think you're crazy because you're doing this old fashion... >> yeah, doing it the old fashion way, why not just use a normal printer. >> brown: yeah, and why not? what do you tell them?
>> its an art, its a lost form, you're using your hands to create every aspect of the book >> brown: a lost form? well, not yet. and arion is on a mission to make sure that doesn't happen. the press raises funds not only for its books but to preserve the historic equipment, and for the apprenticeship program that's trained and graduated 20 individuals since 2000. a number have stayed on, including lead bookbinder sarah songer, who we watched putting the final touches on the leaves of grass edition. >> this is the piece of stamped letter, it's been backed in japanese paper, and we've taken the ends down so that they're thin, and they wont be too bulky, so this piece of leather gets glued off, and then laid down to line up with this grove. >> brown: and that's going to be the spine of a book? >> and that's the spine of the book. >> brown: for his part, andrew hoyem says he's confident this traditional craft will continue into the future.
are there enough young people out in the world to keep this craft, art, alive? >> we hope so. we have people who approach us, who are interested in joining us, because they want to do something that is hands on, produces something physical, tactile, that can be appreciated for the aesthetics of the physical object, and remarkably we have more and more collectors who are joining us from, you know, the silicon valley, people who are involved in high tech, they want to have books that are physical objects that they can appreciate. >> brown: in other words, even the masters of the digital age must turn to the old masters for this kind of work. arion press is printing just 275 copies of "leaves of grass," with production continuing through the summer. >> sreenivasan: online, jeff has an extended conversation with
former poet laureate robert hass. you'll find that on "art beat." >> sreenivasan: again, the major developments of the day. secretary of state john kerry said there's more work to do on a cease-fire between israel and hamas. reuters reported israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu has agreed to a 12-hour pause in fighting in gaza beginning saturday morning. susan rice offered no confirmation of any such agreement and president obama made an appeal to central manner ladders. and president obama made an appeal to central american leaders to help reduce the flow of migrant children coming to the u.s. on the newshour online right now, virginia democratic senator mark warner and republican challenger ed gillespie will
meet saturday for their first debate, an encounter that could shed light on the g.o.p.'s prospects of putting the seat in play this november. our own judy woodruff will be moderating the 90-minute session, which will be broadcast live online at 11 a.m. e.t. find out more about that race on our politics page and come back tomorrow to watch the debate. all that and more is on our web site, newshour dot pbs dot org. and a reminder about some upcoming programs from our pbs colleagues. gwen ifill is preparing for "washington week," which airs later this evening. here's a preview: >> the casualties of failed compromise from ukraine to israel to gaza and right here at home as migrants continue to stream across our southern border. we examine what's on the table and what's not tonight on "washington week." >> sreenivasan: on tomorrow's edition of pbs newshour weekend, jeff sits down with garrison keillor on the 40th anniversary of "a prairie home companion." that's saturday's signature segment. and we'll be back, right here, on monday with an economic
debate: what's the best engine for economic growth, more money for the rich or higher wages for the working class? that's the newshour for tonight. i'm hari sreenivasan, have a nice weekend. thank you and good night. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> carnegie corporation of new york. supporting innovations in education, democratic engagement, and the advancement of international peace and security. at carnegie.org. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions and friends of the newshour. >> this program was made possible by the corporation for
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